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   You guys should do an interview for a future podcast with someone from Dxe!
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   well done show! thoughtful and non-judgemental. agreed with about everything you guys were saying 🙂
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     Thanks Tobias, I’m surprised this is the first time we have discussed a Vegan Strategist article on the show as I always find them thought provoking. Keep up the great work!
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   It’s quite apparent you only have a part of the DxE story yet you are quick to publicly throw them under the bus. Do you feel this is a constructive way to treat fellow activists?
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     As someone who was a member of DxE much longer than many of their current members, it’s abundantly clear to me that the Bearded Vegans have been incredibly fair, open-minded, unpresuming, and careful in their observations, analyses and criticisms of DxE.

     I’m curious what part “of the DxE story” you think is missing that would actually make them look better because the only things I can think of would surely not improve any decent person’s opinion of DxE.

     In fact, for a DxE supporter to talk about “constructive ways to treat fellow activists” as if you have a high ground is downright laughable.
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       Without really understanding their theory of social change that informs their goals, BV has no qualms in jumping in to criticize the tactics. Lacking that context makes their critique ring hollow and their intentions questionable.

       BV doesn’t even know why their abbreviation is “DxE” while it’s so obviously stated on website. This does not inspire confidence in the carefulness of their observations, analyses and criticisms you claim they exhibit. They know no DxE activists except for save a few “low level” participants. Why not interview one of the organizers instead of jumping to unfounded assumptions for a start?

       While I personally believe that putting a tactic in the name of an organization is self-fulfilling I understand why it is so in a culture where veganism has become a kowtowing ineffectual farce of a movement. That is why we have so many “lonely vegans” born new into a movement where they expected much better. DxE is a chance to bring back the movement.

       The story that’s missing is the context of their efforts. There’s a tremendous amount of thought behind DxE and their campaigns. Much of it is archived on their jam-packed website open for everybody to see and comment on. Here’s but a sampling:

       What If Everything We Think We Know About Social Change Is Wrong? (video)
       http://directactioneverywhere.com/theliberationist/2015/3/3/what-if-everything-we-think-we-know-about-social-change-is-wrong

       Social Change Is A Sticky Staircase (and Other Reflections On The Chipotle Campaign)
       http://directactioneverywhere.com/theliberationist/2014/3/4/uhxey48r3fix08ghbjmnl37i8phmzp

       DxE’s Theories Of Change
       http://directactioneverywhere.com/theliberationist/2015/9/2/theories-of-change

       Individuals vs Systems – Emergence and Social Change


       http://directactioneverywhere.com/theliberationist/2013/12/25/individuals-v-systems-emergence-and-social-change



       Are Nice Vegans Making Us Look Bad?
       http://directactioneverywhere.com/theliberationist/2015/12/2/are-nice-vegans-making-us-look-bad

       Any long-time DxE organizer would understand the ideas and culture of DxE. I would know, I’m an organizer as well.
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         crank, i think it’s a matter of perspective. BV’s report (as well as my posts) may look like very biased etc to you, but i can tell you i had several people comment on my post that i was actually not condemning enough of them, and i’m sure BV could get that feedback as well. For myself, if i did not take into account a whole lot of things, my criticism would by much more damning.
         Personally i have listened/read some of the sources you mention and i haven’t found it convincing it all. but i’ll listen to the rest
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         I find this is often the response when people’ criticize DXE, that those criticizing just don’t get it. Well I have already read most of the resources you’ve posted above and I have sat through Wayne’s presentation explaining DXE’s reasoning for their tactics (which I went to because I was skeptical of the initial videos I had seen but also willing to be open minded and hear him out) and it just doesn’t add up for me. I often agree with the foundation of the reasoning but then when I look at the tactics being employed I don’t see the correlation. Wayne’s presentation at RE was essentially a summary of the work presented in Change Of Heart: The Psychology of Social Change yet reached drastically different conclusions. And yes, I have seen DXE’s explanation for their acronym and it still seems nonsensical to me. Ultimately, no amount of good work can excuse the harm DXE has caused to other activists. Just like we won’t excuse Gary Yourofsky simply because he has made many new vegans.
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     in what way were they throwing any one under the bus? i think it was a quite fair show and they repeatedly showed that they had respect for the activists, wouldn’t boo them, felt their furstration, etc. They just don’t seem to agree that it’s very effective to do what they did.
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       In the way they start off by poisoning the well with a barrage of ‘allegations and stories’. Any critical thinker would understand the vapidity of BV’s critique (as well as yours IMHO) but it’s the passive aggressive swipes buried within that are particularly insidious.
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     I’m curious how exactly you think we threw DXE under the bus and what additional information you could provide that would alter our perception of their activism and their abuse of activists?
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       Please see above. You start right off by mentioning “allegations” and such without address. What’s the purpose of that exactly? Now you want to talk about “abuse of activists”? How is it in DxE’s best interest to abuse the very resource they seek to cultivate?
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         Those allegations have been mentioned in previous episodes, so we wanted to acknowledge them but not make them the centerpiece of the episode. Additionally, given the weight of the accusations against DXE I would say our critique of them has been incredibly reserved (as has been mentioned by several commenters). I’ve been following DXE since their pre-chipotle days, I was there at the Resistance Ecology Conference where radical activists called out Wayne during his presentation and I’ve been there as all the accusations against them have amounted into an undeniable mountain of abuse. I’ve read DXE’s horrific response to the “dismantle DXE” page, I have friends who have suffered abuse from DXE and haven’t come forward because of the fear of backlash that we see time and time again whenever someone speaks out against DXE. So, again, I’d love to see what information is out there that would somehow make all of that go away but as far as I have seen, any defense DXE has offered has only condemned them further. You are right though, it is most definitely not in DXE’s best interest to abuse their activists yet that doesn’t seem to have stopped them in the slightest.
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           Yes, Pythagorean Crank, as a former long-time DxE organizer I actually understand the DxE culture completely (it’s origins and development). That’s why I no longer support it.

           Perhaps it’s you who needs to reflect on what critical thinking really is if the mentions of the very real and very serious allegations and patterns of abuses coming from your organization only appear as “poisoning the well” and vapidity to you.

           I was able to see the truth for what it was despite my serious and lengthy investment in what I believed DxE could be.

           If critical thinking really is of value to you, you need to set aside the defensiveness and take a hard look at what might seem too bad to be true, but realistically is.
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   Yeah Priya, John wants to sit down to talk with you when you start yelling at him…that makes so much sense! This is “action” is just as stupid as the speak out recorded by that activist that goes into a restaurant drunk. Embarrassing. I can’t believe I didn’t come to my senses sooner, after being in this group in SF Bay for 2 years…

   I’m quite sure that most of the audience probably were just confused because when I was in dxe, that’s what was so sad about their actions, people passing by or who they were yelling at were just confused. They seriously never give anyone an answer as what to do, there’s no answer because they don’t address veganism. They shout the problem and share stories of animals but don’t say GO VEGAN. All they care about is making new activists and want you to join them. The core members and other organizers in some cities will do whatever they need to do, to keep the dxe brand in tact, in other words…lie, cheat, deflect, love bomb, discredit. I could go on.

   I’m glad people are talking about the humane myth but they’re just not doing it right. Whole Foods does some good but they’re not doing all the can for animals or they wouldn’t be slitting their throats. Killing is killing, there’s no humane way to do it. They want to live, just like we do.

   Thank you for addressing this cult-like group again and again because people need to hear it. I’m so happy to be free from that craziness in my life. Love you guys:)
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   Thank you for being realistic about your talking points when it comes to the ‘is Whole Foods good or bad’ debate. I often hear one side or the other so furiously argued, it’s almost a relief to hear you guys mentioning that yes, they do a lot but improvement…That’s the magic word 🙂 keep being awesome!
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   Not a DxE supporter AT ALL. But the explanation on why you think disruptions don’t work, because it puts people in a bad mood was just one of the lousiest arguments. Do you think activism is about making people feel comfortable?
   Disruptions are very effective actually, and has been used throughout many social justice movements. If you don’t agree with the method of disruption, just say you believe that tabling is what’s going to bring radical change (which has NEVER happened in History). Shaking things up is what brings change.

   Again. NOT a DxE supporter AT ALL. If you’ve never done disruptions, how can you just presume that they do it because it makes them feel GOOD? Damn. It sure doesn’t make me feel good AT ALL. But it’s necessary. So yes… disappointing arguments you had against them. Was expected more well constructed analysis.